Predict the 2012 NFC East Standings

[tr1]

Originally Posted by RedskinfaninOC

Too early. Every year I have high hopes, but we have an un-proven QB. I can't even remember the last time we had at least 7 wins - was it during the Gibbs part II era? First the team has to show it can win against crappy teams and stop playing down to the level of the crappy teams. Here goes:

Giants
Cowboys
Eagles
Redskins

You need to begin to believe.

Our defense will account for 5-7 wins on its own.

[Extreme]

Originally Posted by tr1

You need to begin to believe.

Our defense will account for 5-7 wins on its own.

I think you might have a lofty view of our actual talent level. Our defense will cost as as many games as they win us, making the impact they'll have a push at best. Maybe they win us 2-3 games, but not a single game more.

[Om]

Originally Posted by Extreme

I think you might have a lofty view of our actual talent level. Our defense will cost as as many games as they win us, making the impact they'll have a push at best. Maybe they win us 2-3 games, but not a single game more.

I think you may have an unfair view of our actual talent level. Our defense may be part of a team that can actually score points from time to time, making the style the defense can play and the resulting impact it has a synergistic win at worst. Maybe they help win us 8-10 games, give or take 2-3 more.

[Extreme]

Originally Posted by Om

I think you may have an unfair view of our actual talent level. Our defense may be part of a team that can actually score points from time to time, making the style the defense can play and the resulting impact it has a synergistic win at worst. Maybe they help win us 8-10 games, give or take 2-3 more.

In fairness, I'm speaking solely of our defense, not our offense. tr1 made the comment that our defense alone will win us 5-7 games. I'm saying our defense alone can only win us a couple, because our offense will be responsible for the rest. We didn't make enough upgrades on defense for them to suddenly stop giving up 30 points to horrible teams. The difference now, is I think we have an offense that can put up enough points from time to time to counteract that.

All around, I think we won't win more than 8 or 9 games this season, and the defense damn sure won't be responsible for 5-7 of those.

[Goaldeje]

Originally Posted by Neophyte

Potentially, yes. But nothing in football exists in a vacuum and our defense is no exception. Consider what might happen if the defense is playing with...gasp...a lead. I am not counting on this yet as we haven't even seen Griff on the field yet but what a difference a lead of even 10 points makes in how Has can call the defensive side of the game, huh?

This. And also bear in mind having a QB not turn the ball over on our half of the field should help as well. Our defense should look better just because of those two possibilities.

[Om]

Extreme, my point is the same one Neo made. Defenses and offenses feed off one another---their success or failure is inextricably interrelated. Talking about "how many games the D will win" or "the O will win" is not based on the way the game is played.

[Lanky Livingston]

Originally Posted by Neophyte

Potentially, yes. But nothing in football exists in a vacuum and our defense is no exception. Consider what might happen if the defense is playing with...gasp...a lead. I am not counting on this yet as we haven't even seen Griff on the field yet but what a difference a lead of even 10 points makes in how Has can call the defensive side of the game, huh?

Yeah well, I would love to agree with you, but we saw what happened last year when the defense was playing with the lead against Dallas - Haslett made a very questionable 0-blitz call, MeAngelo got burnt like Roy Williams on Santana Moss and they lost us the game. Now maybe Griff will put more points on the board so that will be moot, but I think its going to take RGIII a little bit of time to get into his "groove" so to speak. Hopefully I'm wrong!

[Om]

LL,

Isolating one play from one game in which the defense "played with the lead" (1 point), with the inference that the play cost the game and thus somehow also negates the concept that having a competent offense has a tangible and direct impact on the defense (and vice versa), seems a little disingenuous don't you think?

[tr1]

Originally Posted by Extreme

I think you might have a lofty view of our actual talent level. Our defense will cost as as many games as they win us, making the impact they'll have a push at best. Maybe they win us 2-3 games, but not a single game more.

I'm not saying they'll score 14 points a game on their own...

But, I think the turnovers will become more frequent. A disruptive defensive front will make offenses produce errors.

We have a pretty good front 7...and a couple of very good guys in reserve.

Oh, and if the offense can spell the defense with a few long drives a game, we'll be considered a top 5 defensive team.

[Lanky Livingston]

Originally Posted by Om

LL,

Isolating one play from one game in which the defense "played with the lead" (1 point), with the inference that the play cost the game and thus somehow also negates the concept that having a competent offense has a tangible and direct impact on the defense (and vice versa), seems a little disingenuous don't you think?

I was just saying we've seen this defense play with the lead before. I'm not disagreeing that this D might play better with a 10-pt lead; but I think they'd be more careful with a 1-pt lead than a 10-pt lead, and look what they did!

Redskins had a 7-pt lead against Dallas the second time they played, and lost that. Then gave up a 59-yarder to Witten after that to go in the hole.

You're right - we won't know the effect of a competent offense on this defense will be; just look at the Colts in their superbowl year. They were giving up something like 175 yards a game on the ground, yet still went 12-4. I certainly hope that eventually we'll have the type of offense to put up 12 wins a season!

[Lanky Livingston]

Also, I'm squarely in the "we're only a QB away" camp - however I don't want to put that kind of expectations on a rookie. In 2013, let's go!

[Extreme]

Originally Posted by tr1

I'm not saying they'll score 14 points a game on their own...

But, I think the turnovers will become more frequent. A disruptive defensive front will make offenses produce errors.

We have a pretty good front 7...and a couple of very good guys in reserve.

Oh, and if the offense can spell the defense with a few long drives a game, we'll be considered a top 5 defensive team.

Yeah, it would be nice. But we've been made to believe our defense is right there on the cusp for too long for me to believe it. All we heard when we switched to the 3-4 was how many turnovers we'd create because of our defensive talent, and how we were gonna burn offenses, win a lot of games, blah blah blah.

Until they prove to me otherwise, our defense isn't good enough to make me feel comfortable with a 10 point 4th quarter lead. Potential means nothing, we always lead the league in potential.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by Extreme

Potential means nothing, we always lead the league in potential.

Truer words have never been spoken (Sorry Om. My blanket! )

Things are looking up for this team, I think. Our defense looks like it could continue improving and become an elite unit this year, but that's far from a given. Last year it was an adequate unit, strong in some things, not so much in others. Until we figure out the secondary we will probably be that again this year.

That's fine, but let's not assume we'll win 5-7 games on the defense alone. That's a huge leap from what we were last year.

And make no mistake, the defense will not decide this team's fate. It's Griffin. We will live and die with his development and none of us know how that's going to go. And that said, I will err on the side of caution and assume he'll play like a rookie. Anything beyond that's a bonus.

[SilentThreat]

Giants - 10 - 6
Eagles - 9 -7
Skins - 9 - 7
Cowboys - 7 - 9


For those of you speaking on our defense, i want to remind you of a little guy by the name of Jarvis Jenkins. I'm not saying he's enough to change the face of our D, but he is enough to bring added pressure from the interior, which will help with the shortcomings our secondary may face.

[MikeSr619]

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